You Need A Manifesto with Charlotte Burgess-Auburn - Stanford d.school Spotlight
In this ninth episode of the Stanford d.school spotlight; Charlotte Burgess-Auburn conjures radical innovative thinking, a fundamentally novel and useful way of looking at design via flexible prototyping! She is author of the illustrated dschool guide You Need a Manifesto.
Ever struggle with a decision? Perhaps lacked a sense of purpose or drive? Every been challenged by a dilemma?
Charlotte Burgess-Auburn makes the case for personal and professional Manifestos - a foundation on which to manifest our goals, desires, or just musings we wish to introduce to reality. Charlotte’s design approach to guiding schema and principles is satisfying and refreshing in a world saturated with choice and not-so-obvious decision making. Learnings here offer a concrete and infallible solution before indecision or apathy has even a chance to be considered.
Charlotte Burgess-Auburn is a designer, artist, and educator. With a background in production for fine arts and theater and experience at the MIT Media Laboratory, she has been the director of community at the Stanford d.school since 2005, where she also teaches classes on the role of self-awareness in creativity and design.
In You Need a Manifesto, Charlotte Burgess-Auburn, the d.school's director of community, first defines the challenges of information overload we all experience today. Then she shows how to craft a personal creed that will help you face daily tasks and roadblocks, and create more purpose in your work.
Explanations and hands-on design-based exercises are based on vibrant quotes and excerpts from a curated collection of designers, artists, writers, scientists, and social activists. These quotes serve both as inspiration and material for the activities.
Each chapter of the book is also preceded by a graphic manifesto by artist and master letterpress printer Rick Griffith, who created his illustrations in response to the material in each chapter, to guide and inspire you to see what you can produce for yourself.
Hosted by The Learning Future’s very own Louka Parry, indulge your cortex in some modern thinking at the forefront of educational design with our amazing guest.
Transcription upon request - e-mail hello@thelearningfuture.com
Automated Transcript:
00:00:02:02 - 00:00:24:23
Louka Parry
Hello dear friends and welcome to the Learning Future podcast. I am, of course, your host, Luke Parry. Thank you for being back with us for this wonderful series that we've been doing on The Humans of the Discord, the staff at Hasso Plattner Institute of Design. And it's been wonderful so far, and I have every expectation that this conversation is is also going to be delightful with our guest today, Charlotte Burgess, Auburn.
00:00:24:24 - 00:00:35:23
Louka Parry
She is a designer, artist and educator with a background in production for Fine arts and theater and experiences at MIT's Media Laboratory, where she has been the director.
00:00:38:07 - 00:00:42:18
Louka Parry
But so probably, as I have said.
00:00:43:12 - 00:00:44:08
Charlotte
So close.
00:00:44:11 - 00:00:45:10
Mixed
So rather.
00:00:47:10 - 00:01:12:07
Louka Parry
Today we're speaking with Charlotte Burgess, Auburn. She's a designer, artist and educator with a background in production for Fine Arts and theater and experience at the MIT Media Laboratory. She's been the director of community at the Stanford D School since 2005, where she also teaches classes on the role of self-awareness in creativity and design. She's the author of the newly released D School Guide You Need a Manifesto.
00:01:12:16 - 00:01:31:21
Louka Parry
And this is why she defines the challenges of information overload that we all experienced today. We'll dove into this this idea around information overload, but also how we might craft a personal creed that can help us face our daily tasks and roadblocks and create more purpose in our work. Charlotte, it's a delight to be speaking with you. Thank you for your time today.
00:01:33:06 - 00:01:35:02
Charlotte
Thanks. It's good to be with you.
00:01:35:13 - 00:01:46:06
Louka Parry
My first question is always, what's something you know as an educator? What's I think you're learning at the moment or that you've learned recently, that's the kind of emergence, your consciousness of your presence.
00:01:46:23 - 00:01:55:02
Charlotte
Yeah. So, I mean, the, the thing that comes to mind immediately is like what it's like to try and write a book. I've never written a book.
00:01:55:17 - 00:01:58:13
Mixed
Congratulated for that. It's great. Oh, yeah.
00:01:58:20 - 00:02:41:10
Charlotte
So it's a steep learning curve. And one of the things that's the most interesting thing to learn about it is how emotional a process it is. I think I didn't really I didn't really expect that. I expected that it would kind of intensely it would be intense intellectually. Like I would have to like think hard. But I didn't expect it to bring up so many feelings both of like, you know, excitement and and and a sense of, like, breakthroughs and, you know, kind of joy and being able to share a share information and ideas, but also like a deep sense of inadequacy or.
00:02:41:18 - 00:02:41:23
Mixed
You know.
00:02:42:11 - 00:02:59:13
Charlotte
Like a concern that like, I'm not an expert in these things, like who am I to talk about them, you know? And it's been very interesting to talk to other folks who are authors, even some of my atypical colleagues who are authors and, you know, say, like, I feel so inadequate. And they're like, I feel the same.
00:03:00:06 - 00:03:03:12
Mixed
You know, like so and there's a lot to it.
00:03:03:21 - 00:03:08:03
Charlotte
Yeah, but that's been a new experience for me. It's been really, really interesting.
00:03:08:04 - 00:03:35:13
Louka Parry
I love that. I mean, a lot of the conversations on this podcast are very much about the connection of the the emotions and cognition. You know, the heart and the mind. And and this piece also, you know, where the, the story we tell ourselves is such a great starting point. Charlotte You know, when you think about a personal creed and a manifesto and you know, as you'll take us through this, it's up to you if you know, what am I worthy of and what am I fighting for and what's my what might be my pathway?
00:03:35:14 - 00:03:55:23
Louka Parry
These are very deep self questions. And it's why I just I've loved, you know, some of the articulations that you've put to this work. So take us into this this world of, uh, of you need a manifesto. What is it? You know, why do we need it? You know what's. Yeah, say go into it.
00:03:55:24 - 00:03:58:20
Mixed
So, so the I'll give you like just.
00:03:58:20 - 00:04:29:02
Charlotte
A tiny bit of like the school context for it. Right. So the D school itself is a is a interdisciplinary institute at Stanford University. And it, it serves students from all across the university. So we're not just working with students of design. We're working with students in business and law and economics and the humanities, computer science, engineering, medicine, etc..
00:04:30:02 - 00:04:57:05
Charlotte
And that's critical to the work that we do, because the work that we do is, is to teach design to people who are not specifically designers so that they can use this tool as a collaborative methodology to solve big problems in the world. Right, to, to, to, to create amazing works of solving problems and kind of pushes forward.
00:04:57:05 - 00:05:21:20
Charlotte
And so my context is that I'm working with people who have, generally speaking, deliberately made a choice to change their lives since way to come back to school and to learn new things. And that is a is a pretty just, you know, kind of that that moment of transformation of deliberate transformation of is is sort of destabilizing in a way.
00:05:21:21 - 00:05:33:10
Charlotte
It's one they've chosen. But it is it's it can be a moment where you're having all of those feelings of like excitement and joy and also anxiety and imposter syndrome.
00:05:34:09 - 00:05:36:14
Mixed
Kind of things.
00:05:36:14 - 00:06:10:05
Charlotte
And and so this project that I developed, which I called the Manifesto Project, was a, an exercise essentially to help students to think about to help students become less intimidated by the idea of connecting with the things that they truly value and how that could help them ground their work and the way that they navigate their work, their their student pathway, their their lives.
00:06:10:19 - 00:06:17:10
Charlotte
Right. And it was you know, it was not intended to be like a big, you know, like.
00:06:18:12 - 00:06:20:24
Mixed
We're all bells of the moment.
00:06:20:24 - 00:06:50:00
Charlotte
You know? So it was just like it's not as intimidating or as difficult as you think it is to approach your your own sense, your sense of your own values and to set goals for yourself and to, um, to kind of create a creed for yourself that you can use to navigate. You know, it's not about, it's not about claiming land, right?
00:06:50:13 - 00:07:12:10
Charlotte
Or like claiming a stance that you're never going to move from, but rather one that is a a tool, a compass to help you make decisions, which a lot of the students that I was encountering and working with really they needed they needed to be able to decisions about the pathways that they were going to follow to, you know, am I going to finish my medical degree?
00:07:12:10 - 00:07:36:07
Charlotte
Am I going to become a designer of medical devices, or am I going to become a doctor? Right. You know, how do I make that decision? Right? How do I make that decision? I know you know, I'm pulled in a lot of different directions. Yes. And I think the it you know, this is a moment this is this is a moment in the world.
00:07:36:07 - 00:07:37:18
Mixed
Right. Right.
00:07:37:20 - 00:07:39:22
Louka Parry
Yeah, that's putting it mildly. I think so.
00:07:39:23 - 00:07:43:15
Mixed
Yeah. It's a moment I get to this moment.
00:07:43:15 - 00:07:46:05
Charlotte
Um, there's a lot going on.
00:07:46:12 - 00:07:46:20
Mixed
Yeah.
00:07:47:07 - 00:08:25:11
Charlotte
And for, for for those people who are, you know, kind of open to understanding what's happening in the world. It's a lot to take in. It's a it feels overloading and can can feel overwhelming. And the sophistication of the kinds of communication tools that we use at this at this point essentially mean that if you you know, if you're not subscribing to your own, if you don't have your own set of values that you're following, you're subscribed to someone else.
00:08:25:11 - 00:08:26:04
Louka Parry
Absolutely.
00:08:26:15 - 00:08:27:22
Mixed
Yeah. So, yeah, you get.
00:08:28:02 - 00:08:30:04
Louka Parry
Instances of fast moving water somewhere.
00:08:30:04 - 00:08:31:15
Mixed
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turn around.
00:08:31:15 - 00:09:09:03
Charlotte
Yeah. You will. And so, you know, my overall goal was to help students build their own boat, right? To like, build their boat, navigate it. But this exercise was a part of that of that larger project of the school's kind of overall sense of community and culture of one. We wanted to really build a sense of collaboration between people who are working in very different fields, using very different methodologies right now to find a way to have common ground and collaborate with one another.
00:09:09:03 - 00:09:31:18
Charlotte
And one of the things that you really need to do in order to do that as a designer is to know yourself. Yeah, right. You have to know where you stand so that you can that you can work with other people. Really. It makes it much easier to have a good working life. Yeah. And it could be like in your work and in your life.
00:09:31:18 - 00:09:50:22
Charlotte
Right. But it is not those things are not separate really, you know, and you will have a much happier working life if you can bring values to your working life in a way that feels honest, you know, doesn't have to be raw and exposed or anything like that, but just like honest and.
00:09:51:16 - 00:09:53:10
Louka Parry
Yeah, absolutely. So I thought.
00:09:53:10 - 00:09:53:19
Mixed
I was.
00:09:54:11 - 00:10:03:24
Louka Parry
Yeah. Grounded in a sense of, of connection to something larger than yourself in some ways, you know, a sense of purpose and purpose. So often.
00:10:04:00 - 00:10:04:10
Mixed
Purpose.
00:10:04:20 - 00:10:20:20
Louka Parry
Seems to be larger than self. You know, it's actually it's an interaction within it's about to be in relationship with something. B that, you know, an organization, be that work, be that a family without a partner in a classroom. The case might be.
00:10:21:20 - 00:10:26:13
Charlotte
When you have somebody you know well, it's your sense of purpose, right?
00:10:26:17 - 00:10:30:12
Mixed
Like it's a bit scary.
00:10:30:12 - 00:10:49:21
Charlotte
So intimidating, right? Like it can be very intimidating when you when you approach it that way. And so the whole project was really about like, how can I get people to take sneak in the side door to knowing what their purpose is, you know, and in a way that doesn't feel as overwhelming or intimidating.
00:10:49:21 - 00:11:03:23
Louka Parry
That's fantastic. So I'd love one thing I often reflect on is we we do put so much pressure on ourselves and on our young people. What do you want to do when you grow up? Who do you want to be? It's like, whoa, these are these are.
00:11:03:23 - 00:11:06:23
Mixed
Pretty big questions. We're still trying to work it out.
00:11:06:23 - 00:11:25:02
Louka Parry
All of us. And so this I mean, this idea of finding your purpose versus building your purpose, I think there's something really interesting about that idea. As designers, you know, in particular, when you use these principles, you go, oh, actually what I discover over time through experimentation, not it's not something necessarily that you just find. I've discovered I've got it.
00:11:25:15 - 00:11:32:12
Charlotte
And also like it's not a random search, right? You know, it's like I'm going to find my purpose, like a needle in a haystack, you know.
00:11:33:05 - 00:11:35:07
Mixed
You guys exactly.
00:11:35:07 - 00:11:57:18
Charlotte
Right. It's going to come to me like a bunch of lightning. I think it's a combination of both finding your purpose and building your purpose. Right. So you're you know, the question is not who do you want to be, but like, who are you right now? And what's the where is the next place you want to go right.
00:11:57:18 - 00:12:03:14
Charlotte
And what does that tell you about the kind of trajectory that you are on? That's right.
00:12:03:14 - 00:12:03:21
Mixed
Good.
00:12:04:10 - 00:12:12:23
Charlotte
Yeah. So it's really about so my colleagues, I'm sure you talked to Andrea and Kelly Smitty about navigating in.
00:12:12:23 - 00:12:15:10
Louka Parry
Both to Kelly. Kelly was on. Yes, she was.
00:12:15:20 - 00:12:43:14
Charlotte
Yeah. And so so your book really talks about like, you know, it explores this idea of wayfinding, right? I have this indigenous idea that is, you know, you're going to have a cone of possibility. Right. And you are you are finding your way among that. But every time you change direction a little bit, your cone of possibility changes a little bit, but doesn't mean you're not going where you thought you were going.
00:12:43:17 - 00:13:15:08
Charlotte
Yeah, you may still be going where you thought you were going. It's just that new avenues are also opening up like different places are also landing. Places are also opening up. And to me that feels like a much more, uh, like a much more optimistic and inviting way of thinking about your purpose and your future and the way you wanted to navigate than saying, like, you've got to set your goal and mind on it.
00:13:15:12 - 00:13:34:03
Charlotte
Yeah. So you get like it's also just like more practical and more realistic to think that you might end up someplace slightly different than where you, where you started out. And I at heart, I'm, I'm I'm just a pragmatist, you know.
00:13:34:03 - 00:13:39:10
Mixed
And the fact that I am an optimist, but.
00:13:39:10 - 00:13:40:05
Charlotte
I'm also a big.
00:13:40:21 - 00:13:54:09
Louka Parry
Seller, I like this this expression as well, you know, to have your feet on the ground, but your head in the clouds, you know, it's this idea that you have your head in the clouds. But if your feet down on the ground, but you're not walking anywhere, you're conflating. That's hovering somewhere.
00:13:54:09 - 00:13:55:17
Mixed
I think.
00:13:55:17 - 00:13:59:21
Charlotte
Yeah. And it's like nobody wants to be floating around forever. No, no.
00:14:00:03 - 00:14:00:17
Louka Parry
No.
00:14:01:07 - 00:14:01:23
Mixed
Yeah, that's.
00:14:01:23 - 00:14:21:16
Louka Parry
A great point. Yeah. It does feel like these moments in time where, you know, there are deep insights, there are deep questions being asked. And, you know, the example you gave of a medical student, for example, who's at this key moment to kind of choose one of the paths in front of them. And I think the scary realization is that there's always an infinite amount of paths in front of us at every moment and.
00:14:21:20 - 00:14:41:16
Louka Parry
Oh, wow, okay. That's that's kind of a bit of a so I'd love you to take us into like what's the process for someone listening to our conversation here? You know, where do you start? You know, in the book obviously has love, some wonderful exercises, design based and, you know, practical. Of course as a practice, you know, the focus is on a bit of the journey, very practical.
00:14:41:16 - 00:14:43:17
Louka Parry
Let's get into it. Let's kind of build it, you know.
00:14:44:05 - 00:15:17:06
Charlotte
Yeah. So it has a sort of two parts, you know, in the book there's a little extra context sort of built around it, which I think is very helpful for folks. There's a sort of but the two main parts of building a manifesto are about collecting and curating. And before you do the collecting and curating, there is a little bit of work that I have put into the book that's really about doing some preliminary reflection on your own.
00:15:17:06 - 00:15:47:23
Charlotte
Like, what do you know now about your values? You know, what are some exercises that can help you sort of discover it is what it is that you think that you value and what it is. What kinds of goals you you think you have. And in addition to that, it also asks you to think about kind of what's your context in the world, what kinds of bias might you be holding on to that that isn't exposed to you at that moment?
00:15:48:04 - 00:16:08:00
Charlotte
You know, to to kind of open up to the idea that you might be holding some bias that you that everyone has them, right? Like there a way you create that shorthand for yourself. But if you can be aware of them, then it can help you in the following sort of part where you're doing a lot of intuitive work.
00:16:08:07 - 00:16:36:16
Charlotte
Yeah. To not just be following like a, a rut in the road and instead really be open to the ways in which in which you are conditioned to think about things. Yeah. So, so it starts with that sort of like preliminary piece. And generally when I, when I'm running this as a workshop, that's a context that I've already set with my students throughout the throughout a quarter or a class or a workshop.
00:16:37:15 - 00:17:06:02
Charlotte
But the main part of making your own manifesto is, is at least the way that I do it is to collect a wide variety of original sources from people that you are inspired by right in your field, in outside of your in your life. Right. And what I do is I, you know, I have a practice in just collecting manifestos, so I collect so matter.
00:17:06:03 - 00:17:09:05
Mixed
F Yeah, I collect other people's.
00:17:09:05 - 00:17:34:23
Charlotte
Manifestos because in your grade folder for my own right, like other people who are these thinkers, right. These believers, these, you know, ideals, you know, they have done it. And so amount of work to to her, you know, to to create pre-made information for you.
00:17:35:09 - 00:17:36:12
Mixed
About things that people.
00:17:36:12 - 00:18:07:06
Charlotte
Believe read like deep thoughts that they believe. And I find them to be incredibly inspiring. And essentially what I what I've done is, is collected a series of manifestos from people who I, I really admire, everything from Charita camps, you know, and the the rules of the art department. Yeah. Or, you know, to I sometimes will use Martin Luther King's letter from a Birmingham jail.
00:18:07:06 - 00:18:39:18
Charlotte
Well or you know, things from other things from like quotes and collected quotes from Charles Eames. They're crazy. Yeah. Just, like, absolutely amazing, right? Yeah. Or, you know, stuff. It's really very specifically about design, like Dieter Rahm's ten rules about good design, you know, but you know, my background is in art and design. And so a lot of the manifestos that I collect are ones that are from that field because that's what I'm most known when I go looking for those.
00:18:40:09 - 00:18:51:01
Charlotte
But every once in a while I come across something that I is just out of left field and I'm like, It's amazing, you know? And the internet is terrible for lots of things, but great for this.
00:18:52:23 - 00:18:53:06
Mixed
Sorts.
00:18:53:06 - 00:19:17:13
Charlotte
Of sign manifestos and other kinds of information like that. On, on the Internet and with my students, I usually provide them with a subset that I that I've curated and I print them out and they're on paper. But for folks who are not with me, I just ask them to like go find them and make them physical. Yes.
00:19:17:14 - 00:19:49:11
Charlotte
Find a way to print out on paper. And and I then the collects the second part of the collection piece is to take, you know, a pair of scissors in one of your hands and, you know, to pick up a piece of paper, each one of these pieces of paper and, you know, read through it with an open kind of mind to that is sort of sensitized to the idea of like, do I agree with this?
00:19:49:20 - 00:20:09:18
Charlotte
Is this resonate do these ideas resonate with me and with my values right? Do I think this is true? Is it true for me? Right. And for the things that really strike people? You know, I call it like, does it ring your bell? You know, like you read it and you're like then you're like, yes, that one, like.
00:20:09:22 - 00:20:10:23
Mixed
Oh, you ring my bell.
00:20:11:07 - 00:20:14:05
Louka Parry
You start saying it everyday to everybody. Like, Oh.
00:20:14:07 - 00:20:14:22
Mixed
Yeah, you're.
00:20:14:22 - 00:20:15:18
Louka Parry
Just quoting it in.
00:20:15:18 - 00:20:18:06
Mixed
Conversation. Yeah, exactly.
00:20:18:21 - 00:20:26:21
Charlotte
So you can you really get a sense of it because when you read it, you have a strong desire to collect it. You have a strong desire.
00:20:27:15 - 00:20:27:20
Mixed
To.
00:20:27:21 - 00:20:34:11
Charlotte
Write like it is the things that you like. That one, I want to put it in my brain and make it stay there.
00:20:34:17 - 00:20:35:12
Mixed
You Yeah.
00:20:37:09 - 00:20:58:00
Charlotte
And so I ask people to cut those out, literally physically cut them out from the piece of paper that they are on. You know, in this context, I'm really treating these original sources as like raw material. Right? And I have to ask my students to like they're like, but I want to keep the whole thing together. And I'm like, but actually you don't.
00:20:58:03 - 00:21:23:02
Charlotte
You just want to take the things that you're most excited about, because what we're trying to do is illuminate what's inside you, not what's inside this other person. Right. And I, I do want people to be explicit about their and, you know, careful about how they honor their sources. Right. Like learning from these people is incredibly it's a privilege to learn from people, right?
00:21:23:10 - 00:21:48:19
Charlotte
Like books and materials like this are amazing because they are available to you when you need them. Right. But to honor the work that's gone into making them is important. Right. Right. But in this moment, like you're taking from it what you need in order to advance your own knowledge of yourself and your own knowledge of how you want to operate in the world, how you want to show up.
00:21:49:09 - 00:22:10:23
Charlotte
So I usually give people, you know, anywhere between 20 minutes and an hour, depending on how much time we have to just read through and collect and call. And we usually play a lot of really good music and, you know, it first starts flying, you know, people are cutting things out and there's not enough room and then it's just going everywhere and it's just like.
00:22:10:23 - 00:22:12:21
Mixed
Yeah, right. And at the end of.
00:22:12:21 - 00:22:43:02
Charlotte
It, there's usually a kind of paper on the floor and a pile of things that people want to hold on to in front of them. And then the second part of the process is curating that. And there are two pieces to that. One is really about thinking about about frameworks organizing principles that might help you. So some people really want like a top ten list and some people want like, oh, they want like one thing that's just.
00:22:43:02 - 00:22:43:15
Mixed
Going to like.
00:22:44:04 - 00:23:02:13
Charlotte
You know, like be the shorthand for every their right, this shorthand for long thoughts and feelings. Yeah, yeah. And some people will want, like, this is my top ten list. Like, this is the thing I refer to. You know, I'm sure that some people have a 75 year.
00:23:02:13 - 00:23:03:15
Mixed
Plan, you know?
00:23:04:01 - 00:23:05:18
Louka Parry
Yeah, yeah. I really like design.
00:23:06:15 - 00:23:26:04
Charlotte
But like one piece of it is frameworks and then the next, the final piece of it is really, is really about media, about mediums, like what's how are you? How do you want to present it? How do you can you say it's like, what's the context in which you need to use it? You know? So do you want it to be something you see every day?
00:23:26:15 - 00:23:30:24
Charlotte
Does it need to be something that hides away? Does it need to be, you know, like do you want it to be?
00:23:32:01 - 00:23:34:08
Louka Parry
Yeah, absolutely. I'm on your laptop, you know?
00:23:34:14 - 00:23:41:04
Charlotte
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So interesting. So there's definitely like a, you know, is it a T-shirt? You know, is it a tattoo?
00:23:41:04 - 00:23:42:18
Mixed
Yeah, it's a tattoo. Yeah, that's that's like on the.
00:23:43:11 - 00:23:48:10
Charlotte
Big difference between those yeah. Between the ways of presenting says.
00:23:48:13 - 00:24:13:01
Louka Parry
So like quick question to you what's thank you for that wonderful I mean I was just it's such a visual process as you describe it. You know, you have a tactile you can really feel like that whole piece and the idea of, you know, you see a beautiful manifesto like that's beautiful. I want I don't want to cut into it, you know, but the whole idea is like what's resonant with you and what in your because of course, you've been doing this at the meta level, the collection of manifestos.
00:24:13:11 - 00:24:27:09
Louka Parry
What have you noticed about the manifesto? And like how do you draw out like do you have a top ten list for what a manifesto needs to be? Do you have what are the key principles that you would say is key? You know, is it diversity? What what is it that speaks to you?
00:24:28:08 - 00:24:58:09
Charlotte
The thing that I have noticed is that, you know, people use them for different purposes, right? So and I actually think that's great. Like I love the idea that you can have a manifesto for different parts of your life for different, different reasons. Right. And you know, for some people, it's a method of integrating new knowledge, right? So like have a sense of what they believe in, what they know is true, what they feel is true.
00:24:58:17 - 00:25:22:02
Charlotte
Right. And then when they encounter something new that changes the way that they think. Right? And then they have a sense of like, that thing just blew my mind right now. They have a way to be like, What was it about that that blew my mind? Like, what is the piece that deeply resonated with me? How can I incorporate that into the way that I currently think?
00:25:22:16 - 00:25:41:19
Charlotte
How does it change my manifesto? Right? Like whatever it is that they've created as a manifesto, it's something that they then can constantly be revising or or working with, right? It's this sort of like a tuning fork, you know? Yeah. That.
00:25:41:19 - 00:25:43:14
Mixed
Right know. Yeah, that's cool.
00:25:44:11 - 00:26:12:02
Charlotte
Which is really great. So some people will use it as that stomach for some people use it as kind of an exploratory kind of an exploratory moment of like, well, about intention and and aspiration, right? So it doesn't have to be, you know, manifesto doesn't have to be something that you already do. Right.
00:26:12:03 - 00:26:12:23
Mixed
But yes.
00:26:13:09 - 00:26:39:16
Charlotte
So it can be it can be about the things that you that you aspire to. And I often use mine, like the things that are a part of my manifesto that are about like, you know, reminding myself, Yeah. About the ways that I want to show up in the world, the behaviors that I want to have and the actions that I want to take that I don't always take.
00:26:39:16 - 00:26:40:17
Charlotte
Right. You know?
00:26:41:10 - 00:26:41:17
Mixed
Yeah.
00:26:42:02 - 00:26:43:05
Louka Parry
That's that's right for.
00:26:43:05 - 00:26:45:03
Mixed
All of us. Right.
00:26:45:21 - 00:26:56:16
Charlotte
So I think that there is that sort of sense of aspiration that and be a part of it that I think is totally fine.
00:26:56:22 - 00:26:58:00
Louka Parry
Yeah.
00:26:58:00 - 00:27:19:00
Charlotte
And then, you know, there's a difference between the person who makes a manifesto to announce themselves to others, right? To like to be like I would like to be a really great collaborator. Here's what I believe. Right? Here's I'm in this work, right? Like that is and then there's a difference between that and something that's more self facing, right?
00:27:19:00 - 00:27:22:14
Charlotte
That's like I'm reminding myself about why I.
00:27:22:23 - 00:27:24:06
Louka Parry
Yeah, great point.
00:27:24:06 - 00:27:29:20
Charlotte
Remind myself about why I do this work right as opposed to beating myself to others about.
00:27:29:20 - 00:27:30:14
Mixed
Why I do this.
00:27:30:21 - 00:27:31:08
Charlotte
You know?
00:27:31:14 - 00:27:51:06
Louka Parry
Yeah. No, I really, I that really resonates the idea. Yeah. Of who we are and who we are becoming. I mean, I love this idea of like, who are you right now and who are you becoming? And I feel like, you know, I often think about, well, a lot of philosophy, to be fair for Allen, what says is one of the thing around the arrival paradox or the raven fallacy.
00:27:51:06 - 00:28:09:16
Louka Parry
Sorry. So this idea that we were always if were constantly future casting into this future state of becoming we, we struggle to be. And so I think it's what our society has done kind of across the board. And I think education systems, you know, in which both of us work, you know, is a really great example of this.
00:28:09:16 - 00:28:34:08
Louka Parry
It's it's like get to the next hurdle. And, you know, we talked about, you know, the cycle grind your way forward. It's like, whoa, okay, just slow down a little bit and think about being and doing and becoming is kind of three parts of a beautiful than diagram perhaps. But I guess my question for you, Charlotte, is, you know, we think about I think a lot about the future of learning, obviously.
00:28:34:15 - 00:28:57:04
Louka Parry
And, you know, you're working a very innovative university in very, incredibly beautifully creative space. What how might we use these tools? And really what you've been discovering and contributing to the students there and beyond, how do we do this and insert this into education systems? You know, do what's possible? As I feel like and there's lots of great pieces.
00:28:57:04 - 00:29:06:08
Louka Parry
But someone said the other day, education systems that are traditional and not in service, actually, you leave them knowing what you're not good at.
00:29:07:03 - 00:29:07:17
Charlotte
Yeah.
00:29:07:21 - 00:29:11:22
Louka Parry
You know, and that's such a it's a such a system failure, such a waste of talent and.
00:29:12:02 - 00:29:37:01
Charlotte
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you said that. You said something very astute there, right? Which is education systems that are not in service. Right. So the idea of being in service to the students, I think, is something that we take very deeply to heart. And that is sort of the core of what it is that I'm doing at the school is being in service.
00:29:38:13 - 00:30:17:13
Charlotte
And I think that's the piece that I feel like education is starting to, you know, eventually remember, it's like it's just the beginnings of like starting to clue back in to that idea of being in service to to the growing human race and figuring out how to enable that person to be a learner and to enable them to discover and to be and to become as opposed to and to absorb and and imitate.
00:30:17:20 - 00:30:19:04
Mixed
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:20:04 - 00:30:22:13
Charlotte
And to future past like to constantly future.
00:30:22:17 - 00:30:26:14
Mixed
Yes. Right. Yeah. So I think yeah.
00:30:26:20 - 00:31:00:07
Charlotte
I think that that is a piece that feels pretty key to what we need to what we need to bring out there. I mean, I also think that the, you know, trying to trying to help education systems not be afraid of seeing the emotional, emotional learning and kind of reflection like self-reflection and self projection as being like to not be afraid of that as a practical tool in life.
00:31:00:16 - 00:31:13:16
Charlotte
Right. I think that often it is seen as something that's a little too like fuzzy or like mumbo jumbo, you know, like it's like, oh, it's all this like woo woo crystal hugging people who are talking about like the emotional.
00:31:15:24 - 00:31:17:23
Mixed
And self-reflexive.
00:31:18:08 - 00:31:36:21
Charlotte
Emotions are a part of our work. They are a part of our you know, they're part of our families. They're a part of and there has been this sort of fallacy about like, you can't bring your emotions to work. You can't bring emotions into your work. You know, this sort of scientific, yeah, you know, methodology of like, you can't put the human in the work.
00:31:37:02 - 00:31:38:09
Mixed
But, you know, you know.
00:31:39:01 - 00:32:01:14
Charlotte
And I think, like, it's impractical really to think that that is true. And I think it's a much better approach to really think about like how do we integrate like all of our, our ourselves, our emotional selves and our intellectual selves so that we can like really be better at operating with each other.
00:32:01:23 - 00:32:03:21
Mixed
You know, in the context.
00:32:04:08 - 00:32:06:16
Louka Parry
Of civility, this is human context.
00:32:06:18 - 00:32:17:22
Charlotte
And we're bleeding out all the emotion from these human contexts and instead being like acknowledging that, like there's a lot of subtext back there. It's just happening all the time, always.
00:32:18:14 - 00:32:43:12
Louka Parry
It's so true. And I feel like, I mean, we've become so arid if we just elevate the cognitive to this this pinnacle without elevating the emotional and the social alongside that, I mean, I often reflect on our work in social emotional learning. For example, you know, and funnily enough, Charlotte, the first episode of this podcast way back a couple of years is with Professor Mark Brackett, who's an emotion scientist and founded Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence.
00:32:43:12 - 00:32:51:18
Louka Parry
And he's hoping that we need to have permission to feel that the affective neurosciences are telling us emotion, cognition, all this anyway, you.
00:32:51:19 - 00:32:52:02
Mixed
Can.
00:32:52:02 - 00:32:52:21
Charlotte
Actually learn.
00:32:52:22 - 00:32:55:02
Louka Parry
Things you can't without emotion, activation.
00:32:55:06 - 00:32:59:07
Mixed
Or do anything if you don't feel it's not funny that.
00:33:00:12 - 00:33:25:15
Louka Parry
Yeah, and so this and I'm seeing this change in my work globally as an educator and a convener, whatever it is I do. But you know, this shift where we're seeing the academic achievement being seen as the sole goal of education systems is really shift. And the pandemic, I think, has been a big vehicle for that. We now have this idea of wellbeing and learning, you know, as kind of putting in place otherwise thriving or flourishing.
00:33:25:15 - 00:33:32:18
Louka Parry
What's the point of getting great grades if you have no friends and you're an emotional wreck like there's. No, no, we haven't equipped we.
00:33:32:18 - 00:33:36:09
Charlotte
Haven't really seen that. It's like the definition of achievement, right?
00:33:36:09 - 00:33:36:24
Mixed
Yes.
00:33:37:04 - 00:33:37:22
Charlotte
Correct. Yeah.
00:33:38:05 - 00:33:39:24
Louka Parry
Yeah. What does that mean to achieve more?
00:33:40:06 - 00:33:48:00
Charlotte
We're like that achievement moves from that arrival fallacy to the like being like.
00:33:48:09 - 00:33:48:23
Mixed
Who are we?
00:33:49:20 - 00:34:09:07
Louka Parry
Yeah, well, you said beautifully, Charlotte. You said I think a piece on to kind of circle this back, you know manifesto can help us remind ourselves how do we want to show up? You talked about your own manifesto and I have one as well. Although having, you know, going through your book, I'm sure I'm going to update that as well.
00:34:09:07 - 00:34:30:03
Louka Parry
But I have a life path. You know, this is like this is my eulogy at the end. You know, that's my manifesto is who I want to have been passed. Yes. Like go to the end, because I'm an educator. So then you backwards design what stuff. But I would love it's such a one. It's such wonderful workshop and it's been great to dove into it with you.
00:34:30:14 - 00:34:48:00
Louka Parry
My last question to you is, what do you want to leave us with? What's something resonant from your work and the way that you show up in all the wonderful ways you contribute to the world? What is it that you would like to leave for us to contribute to our manifestoes, perhaps as we build those?
00:34:48:13 - 00:35:25:08
Charlotte
Yeah, I mean, I guess I have just a couple of things. One is like to just not be intimidated to begin to investigate that part of your thinking and your feeling because it doesn't have to be difficult, like it doesn't have to be monumental and there are easy paths in to it. So that piece is that's the first piece is just like if, if, if this project or this book can help people just not feel intimidated about approaching this kind of work.
00:35:25:08 - 00:35:46:17
Charlotte
I feel like that's a huge win, you know? And the other thing is really like too, it's just a tidbit, I think from my own manifesto, which is I have a little tidbit that's like I like quiet, even though I'm loud. Like I'm a very loud, exuberant.
00:35:46:23 - 00:35:47:04
Mixed
And.
00:35:47:06 - 00:35:48:17
Charlotte
Emotional and.
00:35:49:02 - 00:35:52:18
Louka Parry
I'm getting I'm getting as loud as that.
00:35:52:18 - 00:36:28:02
Charlotte
But I like, you know, I'm I need quiet to recharge. I need to be alone, to be in nature, to be, you know, and I am okay with that contradiction, right? And in allowing for contradictions in yourself is incredibly powerful to a to just be like, it's okay to both want to change the world, right. And, and, and the people in it and to help the people live in it.
00:36:28:11 - 00:36:35:05
Charlotte
But you also can be a person who needs you know, who needs to recharge and be saved yourself, right?
00:36:35:12 - 00:36:36:08
Mixed
Yeah. Right.
00:36:36:24 - 00:37:06:21
Charlotte
So I think for especially for educators, I think who are in service, right. It is okay to both be dedicated to being in service and to take time to reflect on yourself. Right. And that taking time out to reflect on your own self and process and where you work and the way you want to work and show up in the world with other people is, is a great benefit to the service that you do.
00:37:07:11 - 00:37:12:21
Charlotte
Right. So it's not it's not the antithesis of the service that you do. Instead, it's working for it.
00:37:13:02 - 00:37:13:15
Louka Parry
Yeah.
00:37:13:17 - 00:37:18:16
Charlotte
So take care of yourselves so that you can take care of other brothers.
00:37:18:16 - 00:37:26:00
Louka Parry
Yeah, it's such a, it's such a great point. And this idea that be more than one thing I've always said, yeah, you know sometimes you.
00:37:26:00 - 00:37:27:15
Charlotte
Get tagged with saying.
00:37:27:23 - 00:37:29:16
Louka Parry
Yeah to be on the.
00:37:29:16 - 00:37:31:07
Charlotte
Top contradictions of yourself.
00:37:31:23 - 00:37:32:02
Mixed
And.
00:37:32:13 - 00:37:34:00
Louka Parry
To sit in paradox.
00:37:35:00 - 00:37:35:05
Mixed
Yeah.
00:37:35:12 - 00:38:01:10
Louka Parry
How wonderful. Well, I love this idea of, you know, why we need a manifesto. The idea of being and becoming emotions, you know, process, making it super practical and hands on, and the collecting and curation, I mean, all of the beautiful themes I think we've picked up in our, in our chat today. Charlotte So just an enormous thank you from me and from us here at the Lightning Future podcast for sharing, you know, this wonderful work.
00:38:01:10 - 00:38:06:03
Louka Parry
It's a day school guide, but I'll say, you know, some of your ideas and thoughts today as well. It's been great to speak with you.
00:38:06:18 - 00:38:09:09
Charlotte
Thank you so much. It's been wonderful.