S1E2 - Sarah-Louise Gandolfo: Authentic Leadership
In this inspiring episode, Dr. Amie Fabry sits down with Sarah Louise Gandolfo, a Melbourne-based early childhood teacher, consultant, and “forever learner.” With over 20 years of experience in the early years sector, Sarah Louise shares her journey from a chance start in early childhood education to becoming a passionate advocate for leadership, inclusion, and the profound importance of the early years.
Listen in as Sarah Louise discusses her work at Melbourne Polytechnic, her consultancy’s mission to support educators, and the lessons she has learned about authentic leadership. From childhood crochet skills to transformative coaching moments, Sarah Louise reminds us of the power of connection, kindness, and slowing down to focus on what truly matters in education.
The Early Years Matter: Early childhood experiences shape not only academic success but also the future well-being and identity of individuals. Leadership is Diverse: Leadership comes in many forms and isn’t confined to those at the top. Embracing authenticity and individual strengths is key.
Connect with Sarah Louise Gandolfo:
Facebook: Sarah Louise Consultancy (https://www.facebook.com/SL.ECEC/)
LinkedIn: Sarah Louise Gandolfo (https://au.linkedin.com/in/sarah-louise-gandolfo)
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[TRANSCRIPT AUTO GENERATED]
00:00:07:18 - 00:00:36:09
Dr Amie Fabry
Hi, friends. You're listening to the Leading the Future podcast with me, Doctor Amy February, and I am so delighted today to introduce a very special guest who is an early childhood teacher, a consultant, and a mum who describes herself as a forever learner. Sarah Louise Gandolfo has a career that spanned over 20 years. In the early sector, she has worked in a variety of roles and she has studied early childhood education, leadership and research.
00:00:36:09 - 00:00:48:01
Dr Amie Fabry
She's also very committed to making the world a better place for children by tapping into love and kindness. How beautiful is that? Thank you so much for the work that you do, Sarah Louise, and thank you for joining me.
00:00:48:02 - 00:00:52:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Thank you so much, Amy. What a lovely introduction. I'm so pleased to be here, mate.
00:00:52:22 - 00:01:12:09
Dr Amie Fabry
I can't wait to dive into this conversation about your amazing work. But before we do that, I'd really love to know. Do you have a hidden talent? You know, as human beings, we're very multi-dimensional and we love the work we do, and we do it with enthusiasm and passion. But sometimes there's more to us than just our work.
00:01:12:09 - 00:01:20:16
Dr Amie Fabry
So if there's something that is a hidden talent, maybe something people don't know about you, even just an interest or something that lights you up and brings you joy outside of the work.
00:01:20:16 - 00:01:39:03
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You look very, very. I have been a bit of a crochet fan since I was six years old, and when I tell people that I get it, I get looks very strange looks from people. But yeah, my grandma taught me to crochet when I was six and for a long time, you know, it wasn't really cool at school, so I didn't, you know, do anything with that.
00:01:39:03 - 00:01:49:23
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
But it's certainly been something that as an adult, I've picked up and been able to run with again to kind of Browns me and to bring me a little bit of peace in what is a very busy life.
00:01:50:00 - 00:02:05:17
Dr Amie Fabry
That is so cool. And I have to say, I'm slightly envious. When I was a kid, my grandma taught me how to knit and I could never cast on and cast off, and I used to drop stitches and have holes. But I loved knitting. But I could never for the life of me figure out how to crochet. My sister could do it and I just couldn't do it.
00:02:05:17 - 00:02:23:16
Dr Amie Fabry
And I was always just like, that's just that thing that I can't seem to master. Thank you. I think that's brilliant. Let's dive into Elise. You've got quite diverse experience. You've been in the sector for a long time. You also have won lots of different professional hats, but also a mum hat. Why do you believe the early days are so important?
00:02:23:16 - 00:02:44:15
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
It's funny because I came into early accidentally. It was something that I kind of just fell into in high school. I needed a bit of a school holiday job. I needed something to do when I had those free periods that you get in year 11 and 12. And a friend's mum from church kind of said, why don't you come along and work at the service that I'm running?
00:02:44:17 - 00:03:14:04
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And so it wasn't really on the cards. It wasn't something I planned. I wanted to work with high school students. I wanted to be an art teacher or psychology or something. That was certainly not, you know, working with young children. But what's kind of happened is even though it didn't start, I guess with intention, the way it's grown is that I can't not see the importance of early lies any like, everything I look at when I look at, you know, politicians and the way government functions.
00:03:14:04 - 00:03:36:04
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I just think, actually, this is all about your early childhood experience. When I look at my own children, the way they're moving through school and like, actually it was your early childhood experience that has allowed you to be in this space successfully. And so I think, you know, when I think about early childhood, what I'm thinking about is that, you know, we can't extrapolate from any other time period in someone's life.
00:03:36:06 - 00:03:58:05
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
We can't extrapolate it from any other type of work or being or just doing in life, like early childhood is everything. And I'm probably not answering your question very eloquently, but, I'm so passionate. I mean, it's about the early years because I can see that inherent value that moves from literally the, you know, well, not even from the moment child's born, but before that.
00:03:58:07 - 00:04:01:03
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And then as they move off into the world.
00:04:01:05 - 00:04:19:11
Dr Amie Fabry
I love that response because I think, too, I mean, I think largely if we if we look at society broadly, I don't think that we very well understand the importance of the early days. I think those of us who work in the sector do. But beyond that, I still think it it's an unknown space for a lot of people.
00:04:19:11 - 00:04:48:15
Dr Amie Fabry
And and even with an education lens on, you know, like a lot of the work that I do is with schools and I know a lot of educators and very well-meaning educators and leaders just don't understand why the early days is so important. And I think one of the greatest misconceptions there is, is that we look at the early days and think it's just about preparing children for, you know, the academic learning that we want to see happen in, you know, mid to late primary school into secondary.
00:04:48:19 - 00:05:25:23
Dr Amie Fabry
And it becomes about how do we prepare them for good at high schools and things like that. So I actually love that you're talking about the early is is actually impacting who we become as human beings. And that has such a rich and deeper, more profound role to play. And I think that's the conversation that we actually need to also be having is is not just how do we help children to be academically successful, but how do we actually nurture them in those early years so that they grow up to be the kinds of human beings and citizens that we actually want in our communities?
00:05:26:01 - 00:05:51:11
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Absolutely. I teach comparative education and global perspectives at Melbourne Polytechnic, and one of the things that I love about teaching in that environment with these pre-service teachers who come from, you know, countries from all over the world, countries I've never even heard of, I asked them to share about their experiences of early childhood, and obviously I'm doing that from a lens of thinking about what a global perspective is, what are the curriculums, what are the laws and things?
00:05:51:11 - 00:06:17:13
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
So we're looking at it from that lens. But one of the really magical things that's happened through those conversations is that little light bulb moment when people realize these young people are realizing that all those experiences have shaped who they are now, and suddenly they're making a connection between that importance of the early years and then what they're doing at this very moment, sitting at a desk, having a yarn with a group of us, it's it's such a profound experience.
00:06:17:13 - 00:06:37:18
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I think the more as adults we can consider that role and think about our early childhood experiences. Where did you go to kind of were you in long daycare? What was that like for you? You might not remember, but talking to your old people, you know, that might be an opportunity to to open up some dialog and have that conversation.
00:06:37:20 - 00:06:58:09
Dr Amie Fabry
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, gosh, there's so many tangents we could take that, right? Like, you know, just even that kind of inner emotional regulation, you know, connecting to who we are as individuals, our own identities. And, you know, you talk to so many adults and and I talk to a lot of educators, but also leaders, as I know you do.
00:06:58:10 - 00:07:21:06
Dr Amie Fabry
And there's so many of those inner dialogs and some of us carry shame and guilt around things, different perspectives we have about our own abilities and our own identity that is impacting the way we show up from the way we see ourselves and the work we do, or the way we engage with other people, whether they are professional relationships or personal relationships.
00:07:21:06 - 00:07:41:09
Dr Amie Fabry
Like it's really huge. You know, when you start to scratch the surface, there's just so much in there, right? Gosh, we could spend hours talking about that. But I really want to dive into your work. It turns out the work you do, you mentioned you work at Melbourne Polytechnique, but I know you also work as a consultant. So tell us a bit about the work that you do and why you do what you do.
00:07:41:10 - 00:07:59:15
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Yeah, absolutely. So the tertiary space, I mean, much like falling into early childhood, an opportunity presented itself. Where do you a friend of mine was lecturing about polytechnic and needed they needed some more special people. So I thought, you know what, I'll give it a go, because that's my vibe in life is just give it a go and see what happens.
00:07:59:15 - 00:08:17:05
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And so I'm now at the end of my second year and I solutely love it. It's such a wonderful team, such a wonderful environment for the students. And I mean, I'm learning so much with them, which is just so wonderful. But yes, the other hat that I wear is as a consultant for a consultancy which started during the pandemic.
00:08:17:06 - 00:08:43:16
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
It was originally called Learning to Lead in Early Childhood, and it started with just a Facebook page and I want to bring people together. It was a space where I could share my lettings. I was doing a master's of educational leadership at the time, and I needed a place to put articles and to put quotes. And, you know, if there was a funny meme about leadership or something, I just wanted a place where I could just dump all these that I knew other people had just free access to it.
00:08:43:19 - 00:09:07:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I'm certainly not a tech with. So I couldn't do any kind of website or anything like that. So Facebook at once doesn't. And that grew, that grew in popularity. And I ran a beautiful series called Leaders in Lockdown, where I interviewed leaders from around Victoria about their struggles and their challenges, but also the successes that they were going through during the extended lockdowns here in Melbourne.
00:09:07:23 - 00:09:27:02
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I think it just kind of grow from that, and people started to reach out and ask for support and ask for advice, and there was never really a plan, I guess, to become a consultant and to work in that kind of space. I do love, I love what I do and I'm so excited that I get to do it, but I never thought that that would be the path that I'd be on.
00:09:27:02 - 00:09:54:02
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
But now, given that, you know, the sector has changed a lot post-pandemic in Victoria in particular, but we know around Australia as well and beyond, of course. But what I do now is a lot of work around access and inclusion for children with disabilities and neurodiversity, and also thinking about leadership capacity and leadership building. So there was a bit of a rebrand this year, just always consultancy to kind of taking that focus specifically on leadership.
00:09:54:04 - 00:10:09:06
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
While leadership is my first love and will always be the thing that I love to do, it's not everyone's cup of tea, and I think that's helped to make things a little bit more accessible for people as well. So at the moment, yeah, it's just it's just me and I, I sit behind my computer and do a lot of zooms.
00:10:09:08 - 00:10:31:06
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
I go out and visit service. There's a lot of coaching and mentoring in the moment. So with children helping to work through some of the challenges, particularly around you, because it's one thing to kind of tell me over a computer screen, it's a very another thing when I'm seeing the shelf climbing and, you know, dive bombing into a group of children in action, very different advice that I can give.
00:10:31:06 - 00:10:55:16
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
So it's been a really nice way, I think, for me to consider the experiences that I've had and where I've come from. I've been very fortunate in my career to work for some pretty amazing places, to have a lot of professional learning myself, to be able to engage in a lot of really robust conversations. And of course, you know, very privileged to have been in the higher education space as well to get more qualifications.
00:10:55:16 - 00:11:18:19
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
But yeah, I just I feel so privileged to be able to share that back with people. And while my work is very service focused, a part of me does feel like, you know, this is this is my purpose to be here. It's to make sure that our sector can flourish into the future. It's to make sure people feel supported, maybe when their workplace is not feeling as supportive as they would like.
00:11:18:21 - 00:11:38:18
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
But we can work on that. We can help to shift that. We can talk about our values and how we use strengths in the workplace, and we can start to shift some of that narrative. So, yes, in a roundabout way, that's what I do. And again, I just love what I do, and I love working with people and seeing and seeing people light up when they have those moments of going, actually, I do you know what I'm doing, actually.
00:11:38:18 - 00:11:44:11
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
I am an amazing early childhood professional and I can do something really incredible here.
00:11:44:13 - 00:12:15:01
Dr Amie Fabry
Wow. That's amazing. What a great story. I really love hearing about why people get into the work they do. And you know, it's so clear and so evident to hear the passion that you have and the purpose that drives you to do what you do. I don't know if this is going to be easy to talk about because people I find and not always good at saying, this is what I do really well, but, you know, I can read between the lines, you know, you're having an impact on the sector and you're doing this work for a very good reason to support our sector and support our educators.
00:12:15:03 - 00:12:24:15
Dr Amie Fabry
Can you dive a little deeper into, you know, what is the impact that you're perhaps seeing or hearing from educators that you are mentoring and coaching and and working with?
00:12:24:18 - 00:12:37:10
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You're right. That is really hard. It's just like I started posting, you know, some Simone and feedback on my social life. And every time I post up like, oh God, here I go again, big learning myself.
00:12:37:12 - 00:12:38:12
Dr Amie Fabry
You know.
00:12:38:14 - 00:12:57:11
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
I think what one of the greatest things that I've known to come from my style of coaching, mentoring, because it is my style. It's not the only way to engage in coaching, I mean. So it won't be for everyone, and I know that. But one of one of the things that I've really noticed is that when people start with me, they body language.
00:12:57:11 - 00:13:19:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And usually we start online just demographically. And, you know, that's an easy and accessible way. But body language is very hunched over. Everyone's really in themselves. Look at looking defeated, feeling deflated. And there's a very so what it's like negative rhetoric around what they do. But but they're at a point where they're just like, I don't know what to do anymore.
00:13:19:23 - 00:13:40:15
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And so I come in, we do one on one. We might do some small groups, some might come into the classroom, support you in that way, whatever you need. And what I find is that by the end session, and I mean it doesn't really take long because it's it's one person fully, wholeheartedly believing in you. And actually when you've got that person, it happens really quickly.
00:13:40:17 - 00:13:59:11
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And so what I say after about 4 or 5 sessions is suddenly you'll come to the meeting, you're sitting up a little bit straighter. You know, you here might be done a little bit nicer that day. You're smiling and you're excited to tell me about the amazing things that are happening. So it's almost I can't it's not tangible.
00:13:59:13 - 00:14:28:00
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
There's no you know, there's no like, awards like people aren't winning awards and they're not. You know, I can't really comment on whether they're getting exceeding because of that or not. But to know that there's, you know, that shift in desire to work in the sector, that shift in feeling capable, that you do know what you're doing. That, for me is what I do, that that's what I want to help people do and that, you know, that fits in, like I said, with my style of coaching and mentoring.
00:14:28:00 - 00:14:50:08
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And for me, I was very fortunate to have a mentor that fully, wholeheartedly believed in me, gave me a little boost and a little leg up and let me run with that and kind of sent me out into the world. That's what I want to do for other people, too. You know, we're not all fortunate to just find that person randomly and have the confidence to walk up to them and say, you know, hey, let's let's talk, let's have a lunch together.
00:14:50:08 - 00:15:14:10
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
But, you know, I can be that person even if it's on email, even if, you know, one of my clients was only ever over the phone, to this day, I don't know what she looks like because she only wanted to talk over the phone. But even that tone in her voice that first day, she was so defeated. Two months later, she was telling me about the change and the change that she saw in her children, in her space, and I hadn't been in the space.
00:15:14:10 - 00:15:20:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
It was all her. It was all her and how she was feeling about herself. So that's that's what I do.
00:15:20:22 - 00:15:50:16
Dr Amie Fabry
Beautiful. What incredible work you do. And I can't help but reflect on, I guess, the relationship between what you're doing for educators and what educators do for our children, you know, like, but just to be present, to be, to give people space, to feel seen and heard, but also to remind them that they're capable. I think we're also good at being critical of ourselves, and particularly when you face a lot of challenges going for our educators.
00:15:50:16 - 00:16:14:19
Dr Amie Fabry
We know that doing it really tough. There's, you know, a lot of burnout and increasing demands in terms of work and time and stress. So, you know, to have someone like you in your corner that you can talk to and, you know, encourage and I'm sure you provide strategies and things to support them as well, but just to be heard and seen and validated and encouraged, that's just so remarkable.
00:16:14:19 - 00:16:39:07
Dr Amie Fabry
And then to see, you know, for these educators to come back and say that that's having an impact on, like, kids, how they're showing up in the classroom and, and with the children and that it's impacting the children, that's really, really profound. Such important work. This sounds amazing and it is amazing. But do you face any challenges doing this work or have you faced any challenges going from, you know, working as an educator into this consulting role?
00:16:39:09 - 00:16:44:15
Dr Amie Fabry
Have you faced any challenges as a leader, and if so, how do you navigate those?
00:16:44:15 - 00:17:06:17
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that one of the biggest challenges is that people are so burnt out and I don't use the word burnout very lightly because I did go through a period of being in medically diagnosed burnout. And so when I when I come across people and I'm seeing these warning signs, I'm saying that, you know, it's kind of beyond defeat.
00:17:06:17 - 00:17:28:17
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
They kind of they're complacent. They're showing up for work because they have to do it because there's bills to pay, but there's nothing that there's no that brightness in people's eyes. And you know that energy's kind of gone. I'm not a counselor. I don't have any kind of counseling degree or a psychology degree or anything like that. And so for me, the biggest challenge is kind of navigating where does my capacity begin.
00:17:28:17 - 00:17:43:23
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And eight, when, of course, I want to just wrap someone up in a blanket, make them a hot tea and tell them everything's going to be okay when the reality is we can do this work together, but your workload is still going to be we can do this work together, but maybe your manager isn't the kindest to you.
00:17:44:00 - 00:18:04:22
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You know, all those challenges are still going to be there and so I think for me that's the biggest challenge. And coming out of that is thinking about that kind of that spheres of influence and spheres of control that I think Covid talks about. But there's that kind of space where you you can control things. You can control how you show up in the world.
00:18:04:24 - 00:18:21:14
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You can control how you speak to children. You can control the relationship you have with your colleagues. You might be able to influence up towards leadership and management roles and think about, you know, what does the rostering look like and how many children are in each space. You might have some influence in that space, but then there's that bigger picture.
00:18:21:14 - 00:18:49:02
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
We don't have control over the political space. We can do the advocacy. And that's kind of our influence in that in that way. But, you know, it's not an immediate fit. So I think working for me, working in that kind of model for myself first, knowing where the taking every person as they come and understanding where I'm going to have some influence and control, where I'm definitely not, and putting my energy in the right places and then supporting others to kind of do the same.
00:18:49:04 - 00:19:16:17
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You can't control, you know, what room you will put in next. Fine. That's that's done. What we can control is whether you're going to stay and make that decision. You've decided to say, now how are we going to show up? What's going to happen when we get there? So it's a little bit, I guess, compartmentalize. But I mean, for people, perhaps with a brain like mine that is neurodiverse, compartmentalizing helps us to kind of create a bit of a process, which means that we can see the, you know, the light for the trees.
00:19:16:17 - 00:19:36:02
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
It's not all kind of jumbled in together, and we just try to scramble to get out. So yeah, that's probably the biggest challenge is that is that looking at I mean, I guess it's the mental health aspect, right? It's the wellbeing which I'm sure I say wellbeing. I'm like, oh, that word has just been done to death because we're all talking about wellbeing, but it's so vital and we need to keep talking about it.
00:19:36:07 - 00:19:40:04
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
So I have to keep using that word to like come up with a new one.
00:19:40:06 - 00:20:03:02
Dr Amie Fabry
I think you do. I think you do. And you know what? Sometimes I get a bit tired of us coming up with new words, because then suddenly it changes the conversation. And I think, you know, less is more. Let's just keep it simple. But I love that you're talking about, you know, the sphere of influence and what we can control, because I do think that we can really easily suffer from either wanting to do everything for everybody.
00:20:03:02 - 00:20:27:00
Dr Amie Fabry
And I think particularly in the early this happens a lot because the nature of our work is to be that support and that nurture, and you know, that it that like, you need first and foremost for children and that's part of your role. But then that also extends to family, and it also extends to colleagues. And I think, you know, sometimes we can either focus on the things we can't control and that actually consumes us.
00:20:27:02 - 00:20:53:05
Dr Amie Fabry
Or we're, we're trying to do everything for everybody that you know, we do burnout literally because we actually can't do everything. So I actually like, you know, that that idea of compartmentalizing, whether it's a process or whether it's here's what I can focus on right now, here are the things I can control. And some of those pieces know you might not have control over whether you let go of it or becomes a longer term, you know, approach to, can I change that?
00:20:53:05 - 00:21:03:22
Dr Amie Fabry
But maybe that's going to take the time. I think that's really helpful, you know, for us in whatever leadership role wherein but it's also actually a really good strategy for working with other people.
00:21:03:24 - 00:21:27:14
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Not your falling down and, and time and thinking about what time do we actually have? Because I think our sector got really fast paced. We hit the pandemic and everything slowed down. And then rather than come up with a new way of working where we embraced that slowness, we actually hit going. And in some ways, I think we sped up because we were trying to make up for lost time.
00:21:27:16 - 00:21:49:09
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I see that a lot in teens that, you know, they has 27 goals and 17 of them, high priority and all need to be completed by the end of the year. And I'm like, choose one, hit one, and let's work on that. Because actually, we don't have capacity to do all of it unless every single one person is taking on one goal.
00:21:49:11 - 00:22:17:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And then that's not a team approach. That's an individual approach. So, you know, I think that idea of slowing down, you know, and using, I guess, using elements of what we now know is slow pedagogy. Alison Cloths work. And thinking about that from a leadership perspective should go. Actually, we can just take a breath. Yeah, actually, we can just take a moment and think about the impacts and think about where our energy is to be able to achieve some of these goals.
00:22:17:23 - 00:22:40:08
Dr Amie Fabry
Yeah, absolutely. And to do that well, you know, like I think you have to slow down to actually really dive deeply into something so it doesn't become tokenistic. And, you know, there's 20 things we want to achieve. And we just doing it for the sake of ticking boxes. But actually we need time to not only prevent overwhelm and burnout, but also to do things well, right?
00:22:40:08 - 00:23:00:16
Dr Amie Fabry
To dive deeply, to see and learn from each other, to really observe and notice what what impact those. Okay, let's talk about leadership more broadly. So you've shared lots of great strategies and some thinking what what have been some of your greatest learnings about leadership through your experience?
00:23:00:21 - 00:23:37:01
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
I, I've struggled with the term leadership for a really long time because I think when we go to university, when we study, when we think about leadership, we think about it very much from a top down model. You know, someone's at the top, someone's making those decisions. And that's not really what leadership is all about. And you know, when I started learning to lead in early childhood and having that space where people could just share, what I was saying was that leadership was coming from lots of different directions, and it was coming from the person with the set three qualification who had implemented some process to help with transitions in the morning to make them
00:23:37:01 - 00:23:58:22
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
easier during lockdown. It was, you know, it was the CEO. It was, you know, the cook doing the work, you know, on sustainability and kitchen gardens. And so I started this, this is running during the pandemic. So it's only like 5 or 6 years ago I started thinking about actually leadership is at the one person at the top approach that we've kind of always thought about.
00:23:58:24 - 00:24:25:03
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And so over time, that's kind of grown. And so certainly part of the work that I did for a long time was thinking about the leadership capacity that every person has and harnessing that and looking at that. But I think there's been this kind of additional layer to my learning almost, I want to say fairly recently where I've been thinking about this, this individual approach that we all take and that leadership can't look the same.
00:24:25:05 - 00:24:42:17
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I mean, if you looked through my professional learning record where I write everything down that I do, you know, it's you know, he's a leadership PD, he's a leadership day. He's and those he days while they great and they teach about the theory or some strategies or whatever. It doesn't actually get to the heart of who I am.
00:24:42:18 - 00:25:13:18
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And it doesn't take into consideration that I have ADHD. I have two children. I, you know, work a lot. I enjoy a beach vacation. You know, it doesn't take me into account in that way. And so what I'm really starting to learn is that they cannot be leadership without a really strong understanding of who people are fundamentally, and what are the little bits and pieces that create them, and I guess, build them into the person that they are when they stand in front of you.
00:25:13:20 - 00:25:36:00
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I think for early childhood, this is quite a shift in thinking, because the rhetoric for me, and I don't know if it was the same for you and me, but the rhetoric for me has always been leave your stuff the door, don't bring you your issue, then don't bring that part of your self in. And you know, if you're a quiet person, that's, you know, that's a whole nother layer of complexity.
00:25:36:00 - 00:25:56:10
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You know, you got to leave that part of you because who knows what the families would think. So we leave all this behind. And so when we actually come into the space like a ship almost can't exist. And then we wonder why we've got those challenges with communication and even time management, productivity and all those sorts of things we associate with leadership because we're not actually bringing our authentic self to the space.
00:25:56:10 - 00:26:18:01
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
We're not actually bringing all the different pieces of ourselves through the work that we do. So I think for me, that's been the biggest learning is it's not just going leadership can happen for every role that exists in an early childhood space, including children and families, of course. But if we're not, if we're not creating space for us to be authentic, that leadership's never going to be effective.
00:26:18:03 - 00:26:21:04
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
It's only ever going to be that top down. Yeah.
00:26:21:06 - 00:26:45:19
Dr Amie Fabry
I totally agree. And I think that's been my biggest learning as well about leadership. I came into the early childhood sector thinking our leader had to have all the answers, and that would just know what to do and to think about what to do, you know? And I've worked under leadership models like that, and I think there is a time and place where you there's some security that comes from, you know, working with someone who seems to know what they're doing.
00:26:45:24 - 00:27:01:03
Dr Amie Fabry
But at the same time, I think we have, you know, if you reflect on all of the leaders that you've worked with, it is the people who are authentic that you connect with, the people who make you feel seen and heard. And they don't have to have all the answers. And they all they all don't lead the same way.
00:27:01:03 - 00:27:39:12
Dr Amie Fabry
You know, like, I know lots of really amazing leaders. None of them are the same. So, I think that is really important. And I think it's still, a significant myth that hangs around about leadership, that it's a certain type of person that can be a leader. I love what you're saying about being authenticity and, you know, connecting with yourself and being your own leader, because I do think that it's so pivotal when I think about the leaders that I know, the ones that are really great leaders, I think are connected to themselves and can step into who they are as leaders and own their own space, you know, and and lead in a
00:27:39:12 - 00:28:03:03
Dr Amie Fabry
way that makes sense to them. So do you have any advice then, for people who might be leaders, whether they're, you know, lacking a little bit of confidence or not, sure they're doing a good enough job, or maybe they're aspiring leaders who would like to be doing something. I think some of us have that kind of urge, or we can see that things could be better and I could make some change, but maybe I'm not sure that I'm the person that can do it.
00:28:03:05 - 00:28:14:22
Dr Amie Fabry
Do you have any advice for people who are leading and what they can do to step into leadership? You know, particularly when they're striving to improve opportunities for our children?
00:28:14:22 - 00:28:32:14
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Yeah, yeah, I think there's there's two big pieces of advice that I tend to just come back to time and time again. And I probably will for the foreseeable future. The first one is to get a mentor, and I don't mean outlay money and go pay someone like me to come in and be your mentor. That's great if you've got the means.
00:28:32:14 - 00:28:58:14
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Awesome. My contact details 100% reach out, but someone you trust, someone who knows you. Someone who gets you. Someone who wants to see you succeed and start to have those conversations. Because a lot of the leadership work I've found has come through dialog. It's come through reflection, it's come through revisiting ideas, processes, practices again and again and again.
00:28:58:14 - 00:29:20:23
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And just when you think you've got it curve ball, a new piece of research comes out. Or, you know, the child gets six months older and you're like, oh, when did that happen? And we've got to think about it all over again. So having someone that you can repeatedly come back to and have a chat with, I think is a great way to refine your own leadership skills, but also growing that confidence that you need and that you, you know, authentically.
00:29:20:23 - 00:29:45:16
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You know who you are, you know what you're about, and you've got someone that supports you wholeheartedly. The second piece of advice is to stop thinking you have to do this alone. And I think that was, for me, something that took me a long time to realize. I felt very siloed. I felt very disconnected in my work. And so, you know, I kind of job, Hotch, because I was looking for something and I didn't actually know what I was looking for.
00:29:45:18 - 00:30:13:11
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
And I wish 20 years ago someone had said, hey, join this network. Hi. Become a member of Early Childhood Australia when you join forces, when we actually find out our people and we do that work together, we actually lighten the load for everybody. And so it no longer feels like we are drowning in advocacy or we are drowning in, you know, parent concerns about a particular practice.
00:30:13:11 - 00:30:35:13
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
You know, actually, it's happening in seven other centers, too, in your local area. But until we build that network, until we create that kind of a shared, collegial environment around us, we don't know. And we feel like it's just us and we feel like we're drowning. So find someone who wholeheartedly believes in you, one person, and then find a group that you can join who maybe you're very quiet.
00:30:35:14 - 00:30:50:08
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Maybe you just go along to the meetings or to the network events, and you sit there and you don't say anything to anyone, but you get the energy, you get the energy. You hear the stories. You've got something to take back with you. You don't need to be the loudest person in the room to contribute to that space.
00:30:50:10 - 00:31:10:21
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
So it might, you know, for some people that's going to that's going to be a really strong push, you know, to get out there and get outside your comfort zone. But that's where we grow as a sector. That's where we're going to see some significant change and some shifts in practice, but also in thinking and the way, the way things are done, because it doesn't have to be the same forever.
00:31:10:23 - 00:31:46:01
Dr Amie Fabry
Yeah. So that's good advice. I love that, and I love that you mentioned not to get any mentor, but to get someone who knows you and, you know. Absolutely. There are amazing mentors like you which are really, really helpful for people who have the means, but I love the idea of actually finding a mentor who knows you and sees you for who you are, because I think to, you know, certainly my experience and some of the ladies I work with, you know, you do sometimes hear messages from people around you during your workplace or even beyond who might give you some feedback that you perhaps don't like.
00:31:46:01 - 00:32:13:10
Dr Amie Fabry
And it's not always feedback that you should actually take on board. So I do think, you know, there's there's something to be said about really focusing on who am I listening to and why am I listening to their perspective as well. Someone who sees who you are and can actually see your intention as well is going to. I think, give you more constructive support and feedback around not only where you might grow and help you build your skill set, but also recognize your strengths.
00:32:13:12 - 00:32:35:17
Dr Amie Fabry
And I think that's really important as opposed to the critics. And there's plenty of critics out there, who won't necessarily predict. Right? Yeah, absolutely. And I do also love the idea of community, because I do think leadership is hard and it can feel really lonely. You know, whether there's other leaders in your service or school or whether you are really feeling like you're going at it alone.
00:32:35:17 - 00:32:53:17
Dr Amie Fabry
But but having people around you who are doing similar work, to not only learn from, but also to lean on, you know, like we are in this together and that's really easy to forget. I love that, that saying by Ram Dass that we're all just walking each other, you know, it's it's really beautiful to remember.
00:32:53:17 - 00:33:18:04
Dr Amie Fabry
And I get inspired, you know, connecting with people like you in the sector who are also doing similar work. You know, it keeps me energized and helps me feel that I'm not alone doing the work that I do. So, I think that's real power in coming together, building those network and finding people, you know, like you said, you tribe, to people who are like minded and want the best for you and see the best in you.
00:33:18:04 - 00:33:20:04
Dr Amie Fabry
You know, I think we all thrive in those conditions.
00:33:20:04 - 00:33:22:00
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Yeah, absolutely.
00:33:22:02 - 00:33:34:12
Dr Amie Fabry
It's been so good to talk to you, Sarah Louise, thank you so much for sharing your insights. And your experience and your story with us. Before we go, where's the best place to find you and reach out to you if people want to know more about your work.
00:33:34:12 - 00:33:55:06
Sarah-Louise Gandolfo
Yeah. So I predominantly share on Facebook. So Sarah Louise Consultants say if you look that up on Facebook, but also connect with me on LinkedIn, everything last year on LinkedIn, everything's free, everything's accessible. It might be a little prompt. It might be, you know, an idea that you take and roll with that your service. So I'd love to connect with you and keep talking.
00:33:55:08 - 00:34:01:02
Dr Amie Fabry
Amazing. Thank you again. It was such a joy to talk to you. I always learn so much from you. So thank you again for your time.
