HundrED’s Innovations for Flexible Learning: Lasse Leponiemi
Why do some students have such few hopes for the future where others do, when both have the same potentials and opportunities? What are some revolutionary, brave, and ingenious developments of technology design in education?
Lasse Leponiemi is a co-founder and executive director at HundrED, a mission-driven organisation focusing on identifying, amplifying and implementing education innovations.
Lasse has been working with the youth education and career planning since 2003. In 2008, he founded an e-student counseling and marketing service whose clientele included everyone in Finland that was interested in university studies, reaching over 100.000 students monthly. When the company merged with the biggest prep-course provider in Finland in 2011 Lasse co-founded the NGO Mentors of Finland, which helps over 400 unemployed young people get a job every year. Since 2012 he has been working at HundrED developing educational concepts.
Find out more about Lasse at HundrED
Transcripts available at www.thelearningfuture.com
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This Season is done in partnership with Salzburg Global Seminar. https://www.salzburgglobal.org/
Please check out our partner’s publication advocating for education transformation: https://www.diplomaticourier.com/issue/transformed-the-case-for-education-transformation
[autogenerated transcription]
00:00:06:02 - 00:00:39:07
Louka
Hello again, friends, and welcome to the Learning Future podcast. And this season on Education Transform. Today we have a wonderful guest and a good friend of mine, Lasse Leponiemi, who is the executive director at 100 based out of Finland. He's actually the co-founder and executive director of this Finnish mission driven organization, which is dedicated to helping every single child in life flourish by giving them access to the best possible education innovations they've been doing some wonderful work with in over 100 countries now, with networks of innovators and implementers.
00:00:39:17 - 00:00:57:11
Louka
And as you hear, he's pretty passionate about the kind of future, the youth orientation and has worked in all sorts of different settings since 2006. Although he looks very young, I have to say. Lastly, look, he's got an MBA in educational leadership from Tampere University of Applied Sciences, and he joins us from Helsinki today. And I say it's great to have you with us.
00:00:59:17 - 00:01:19:11
Lasse
Thank you. Look on to you know, it's it's fantastic what you can do with those air filters these days. So are you guys more than out this game? And, you know, you're going to you can sound whatever you want. I've got to look for every one. So it's so I was you know, I was wondering should I've got to go with the frog face or.
00:01:19:15 - 00:01:22:14
Lasse
Right. Or, you know, something. But let's, let's keep it as it is.
00:01:22:23 - 00:01:43:23
Louka
Well, I really well, I think let's say one thing. I'm learning, okay, This is my first question to you, is that you might not be lazy. You might be in this one up version of lesson. You know, I has broken kind of content verification this year, but what is one thing that you're learning through the work that you do really at global levels around education, innovation and beyond?
00:01:45:23 - 00:02:07:02
Lasse
Hmm. Yeah. So as you know, you know, one of the key things we do, we identify education innovations and at the moment we are in the middle of a review process of the global collection for 2024. So even though the next year is still quite a far away, we are already going to like identify new silos and practices around the world.
00:02:07:02 - 00:02:34:21
Lasse
And, and as we were discussing before the call it, that Australia is very much trending at the moment and like what you can do with A.I. in the field of education. Yeah. And then the second, second big piece which has been remaining for the last few years is the wellbeing of students and teachers. So I think like those are kind of the key things we are looking at, looking with our education, innovation, research at the moment, and then how you combine those things with different things.
00:02:34:21 - 00:03:02:16
Lasse
So we are, for example, in Bangladesh, we are trying to identify acceptable things that work in wellbeing and, and together with that, Finnish gaming companies took us out of the Oxford and look in gamified curriculums are interesting. So how you can not only have a single, you know, play based application or game game intervention for the learning, but can you actually gamify the way the school operates?
00:03:02:24 - 00:03:12:18
Lasse
I don't know. That will affect the learning and the world school community. So those are those are some of the new things we are having on our plate at the moment. And let's see what comes out of them is fantastic.
00:03:12:18 - 00:03:46:20
Louka
I really I love I really do love the work of hundreds. And I think the way that you've thought for a long period of time and this season, as you know, is in collaboration with the Carlsberg Global Seminar of of which we're both fellows and it's on education transformed kind of like a past tense. And it's I wonder, you know, with what you're seeing around the emergent themes what does this idea of a transformed education really mean to you as opposed to maybe like an improved education or like what more it iterated, you know, what's that kind of mean for for you as an educationalist, for you as someone that is really at the forefront
00:03:46:20 - 00:03:48:06
Louka
of this education, innovation, space?
00:03:50:07 - 00:04:21:00
Lasse
I think like all of this started maybe five years ago. Yeah. So that is the moment when I remember hearing for the first time somebody using finance form as a way to describe what we should be doing for education. And actually quite a lot like the word, because if you are thinking about reimagining or kind of like somehow completely like blowing up the existing system and then building it back better in many cases, that is just not possible.
00:04:21:00 - 00:04:40:24
Lasse
You know, like but when we are transforming something, we are taking the existing elements, we are somehow modifying them by improving them. It might be, you know, letting something go and then picking on something new. But eventually, like we are still saying that the purpose of the education remains as important as it has been. You don't have to imagine that.
00:04:41:07 - 00:05:18:04
Lasse
But we can kind of like improve the ways how we operate or how we help students to learn then. And that's kind of like how I am approaching the transformation discussion. And then when we work with the global education innovator, something that I'm actually quite happy to see around the world, many of these education providers, ministries are the kind of for like governmental organizations are now discussing a lot more about the multidisciplinary subjects like creative thinking, social, social, emotional learning, and media literacy.
00:05:18:16 - 00:05:47:09
Lasse
And those are not any more seeing as competing elements within the curriculum. They are seeing as a complementing elements for the traditional subjects. And we are starting to understand that aspect. A AI is shaping the way how we operate, how the society saturating. We have to be building those new skills and competencies to the students so they so that they can, you know, succeed in the future of work life and personal life.
00:05:47:13 - 00:06:10:22
Louka
Yeah, mate, there's a lot to click on there. But I want you I just want to just bring us back to one thing you said before, like the idea of letting some things go, because clearly the work of hundreds and yes, you know, it's looking at the kind of the emerging future which are these in innovative models across all contexts, you know, low income, high income, majority world, minority world, etc..
00:06:11:20 - 00:06:23:14
Louka
What are some things that, in your view, you know, because you could always have like a an A.O., right. Is which is like the, like legacy practices that are.
00:06:23:19 - 00:06:27:03
Lasse
Ready to go every year 100 tells us from the world.
00:06:27:03 - 00:06:39:17
Louka
Yeah well from the longer we take it you know we have an interesting counter, you know what I mean. Like but like what are some of the things when you clearly you see what's emerging? What do you think we need to let go of across our education systems.
00:06:40:15 - 00:07:10:01
Lasse
That that might be actually the most difficult conversation that everybody are trying to avoid in the field of education. And so, you know, every time we are part of the curriculum development discussions, people are by saying that and then we need to do this. Know nobody passed to say, but actually we have to take something out. And as we are going to like thinking about it, you know, we have we still have many 4 hours in a day and we still have that, you know, some amount of days in a school year.
00:07:10:11 - 00:07:42:24
Lasse
So we have to take something out. We cannot only add new things. And that's kind of like the very, very challenging thing for us to understand. But it's also a very political discussion. And we go to different countries and we work with different systems. Maybe, you know, teachers might be feeling worried if we have a discussion. So to be ready is from there from the curriculum because it means eventually somebody will lose a lesson that they have been teaching for a classroom for maybe decades.
00:07:43:07 - 00:08:06:19
Lasse
Yes. But what I would actually kind of like approach this is the whole basic shape, the way or how we facilitate the learning in the classroom. So, all right, now we kind of are like, see, let's think about ICP classes, for example. So when we are learning like different kind of idea skills, those those classes has been transforming throughout the last decades.
00:08:07:01 - 00:08:42:10
Lasse
So nobody is anymore, you know, using those old softwares that were used maybe in the early 2000 or late, late nineties in a school context, but we are using something different. So in a similar way, we should be modifying the content we be we are having in, in our curriculum. So now when we are, for example, approaching it, we kind of like keep talking about the air and we should be maybe like adding stuff how you can use air in in a mindful way to support you learning.
00:08:42:14 - 00:09:05:22
Lasse
So what are you doing the work you should be doing? Because all of us most likely will be using some kind of air solutions to support us and help us to navigate through our professional and personal lives in future. Whether it's the Google navigation in your phone or something, which is using the data to create the most optimized clothes for you.
00:09:06:00 - 00:09:40:14
Lasse
Yeah, and we should understand how those things work. But then what we should take out of the picture is maybe like how much it makes sense to do something by height, how much it makes sense to use a lot of time to do kind of like learn very deeply some existing solutions for application. So like, like this kind of like technical language or would it make more sense to try kind of like trying to understand how these things have been created?
00:09:40:14 - 00:10:02:14
Lasse
What are the structures behind us? Those and for sure we need to have those basic skills also in the future. We cannot kind of like skip, you know, literacy scale. So then there is a skills. Yeah, but then I'll be able to change to better how we learn those skills. So that's the interesting thing for me, because it might be so that we are able to accelerate the learning.
00:10:03:02 - 00:10:32:04
Lasse
Or maybe we should actually pause on some, some, some, some something. So some kind of like learning situations more, for example when we are learning socio emotional skills. Yeah. And actually a concept I was discussing with one of our 100 innovative innovators, deep back Ramallah from protest. Well, and he said something interesting because in a startup world in innovation world we often talk about MVP's.
00:10:32:08 - 00:10:58:24
Lasse
Yeah, minimum viable products and debug by saying like I have been creating a new way to approach MVP. And for me it's these days most valuable POS. And I think like when we are very busy in our lives and just saying I think like something that should be kind of for like learning is to have those policies how be, you know, stopped for, for a moment.
00:10:58:24 - 00:11:14:12
Lasse
And we think and if I would need to add something to the curriculum, maybe that is a skill I would like to like to kind of for like underline the importance of it, because it also helps with their emotional and well-being.
00:11:15:18 - 00:11:21:09
Louka
Let's say. Where do we start with that answer? I look well, first of all, I, I.
00:11:21:09 - 00:11:24:09
Lasse
Changed of all question and I said, you know, whatever, like one piece.
00:11:24:09 - 00:11:25:18
Louka
So no, it's fine.
00:11:25:19 - 00:11:34:16
Lasse
It's like that in my case. Okay. Facilitated for a panel discussion about the same like you can answer that this question or any other question you might think about.
00:11:36:17 - 00:11:55:05
Louka
Now it really there's a lot of powerful themes there. This let's start with the pause aspect, you know, because I'm a big fan of Andrew Huberman in the Huberman lab, you know, and he's a neuroscientist at Stanford, and he really talks about the power of Pulse, even a ten second pause in the middle of a learning activity kind of gives your brain time to catch up.
00:11:55:05 - 00:12:23:07
Louka
And then and the like, the dendrites in the neural pathways, the neurogenesis that's going on in your brain, it's actually map. And yet so rarely do we find space to pause anymore because you fill it with entertainment or with information or we just get our phone out. You know, there was a time and I think you and I both old enough just to remember when, you know, you'll be standing in a line for something and you would talk to the person next to you because you will present to the kind of why not just now?
00:12:23:07 - 00:12:48:10
Louka
Yeah, why not? Was now you'll talking. But two people, you know, connecting with people all over the place. And it does it adds something but it removes something. And this most valuable pause idea is so interesting, not least of all because of the open letter. Of course, that was written by a lot of the A.I. researchers where we're recording this in May, and I, of course, is exploding around us, you know, and they said, we need to pause A.I. development for six months so we can work out the ethical frame.
00:12:48:24 - 00:13:12:15
Louka
Now, I'm an optimist, but I'm not optimistic that that's going to take place with this idea of the pause is a really beautiful way to think about about the purpose of schools and the purpose of education as being kind of truly human centered. You know, in your piece around, yes, literacy and numeracy, but how they are learned and the kind of the art of learning, not just the science of it, you know.
00:13:12:23 - 00:13:38:01
Lasse
Like that's how you know, how do you make that personalized? How do you make personalized for both the students but also for the teacher? And that's also like another aspect that we don't talk about enough, in my opinion, a lot about personalized learning and we kind of follow succeed. And that's something that should take place as a part of the like the learning classification based the process of learning.
00:13:38:07 - 00:14:18:18
Lasse
But yeah, we do not talk about that much. Is that like how do we do personalized teaching? Because as much as the students are having, you know, they own and ways of learning, so do the teachers have and so do teachers have the most efficient and creative ways to facilitate the learning process. And I and when we are discussing like how this differential all says application learning back end systems might benefit the students, I think it would be very crucial to also think like how those can take that kind of.
00:14:18:18 - 00:14:41:22
Lasse
I like to give the room to the best learning facilities and the teacher can be giving in in that situation, how they can guide the teacher and how it can be part of their professional development. As we are talking about, that our students should be lifelong learners. So we and that's kind of like something that kind of for like excites me quite a bit.
00:14:41:22 - 00:15:11:01
Lasse
We need a spotlight on a formative assessment. So assessment about learning and assessment how how the students can learn the best in different situations. And I think that kind of like professional development should be, should be kind of like much more present for the teachers, because then that can that can go for like open up totally new kind of avenues for learning and and it can give room for having those policies.
00:15:11:01 - 00:15:49:12
Lasse
So having kind of for like more focused time on, on some certain things, which is going to be because that data would be available for us to know where to look at. And sometimes in education sector, we talk about big data. And I actually I'm not a big fan of the big data. I actually think that small data might be much more valuable in the classroom setting because that small data going to help us understand how do different students in the classroom learn what kind of things that they they find challenging or difficult?
00:15:49:12 - 00:16:07:03
Lasse
But if we only looked at big numbers, they lose those nuances which are very, very important when we are trying to personalize the learning and that's something that I hope that people would remember when they are thinking about how to utilize data as a part of the learning process.
00:16:07:03 - 00:16:27:00
Louka
I love that so much. Last, say the power of small data. You know, and to really understand the story. And I do think we are somewhat, I guess, like allured by big data and think, wow, that's a look at these data points. And this is the whole country or the whole state or the whole school. But of course it doesn't really inform us from the formative aspect.
00:16:27:00 - 00:16:47:04
Louka
Like, Well, okay, what are the behaviors as an educator that we need to put in place for this learner at this moment? And I guess this piece on personal, I really like your reflection on, you know, personal teaching, personalized teaching. That's such a powerful thing. At the same, of course, with wellbeing in our work, we've noticed, you know, people were obsessed with student well-being.
00:16:47:04 - 00:17:09:24
Louka
Well, that's critical, but it's not the whole it's not the whole piece. It's a human organization. So how does it become a well-being oriented ecosystem, right? That's got obviously like rigor and stretch and struggle, but ultimately it's got flourishing at its core on collective flourishing, because if a teacher is burnt out, they're not going to be able to teach their best to students and maximize student well-being.
00:17:09:24 - 00:17:32:03
Louka
And yet we've kind of, I think, take like engaging this Faustian bargain where that's what we do, you know, kind of the teachers sacrificed themselves for the academic outcomes of the young people as opposed to everyone thinking about this in a more holistic way. We had a great conversation about agency as well, let's say, and I'd like Alexa to kind of visit the future for this little piece because I work at the learning Future.
00:17:32:03 - 00:17:56:09
Louka
We, you know, we're really interested in one of the principles that are emerging. And of course, how do you apply those to school design and strategic design or, you know, the future of leadership skills or whatever the case might be? And so you look at things like agency, for example, which for me is just a construct that will be one of the leading constructs into the future of learning like can young people, self-directed self determine their learning and self-determination theory?
00:17:57:02 - 00:18:16:06
Louka
But of course we it out by the educators once more we like Yeah, student agency. But actually what about the agency of an educator within a system? Do they feel empowered to do their best work consistent? Me If not, why not? How do we create a liberty structure and system in that that can kind of not be so hierarchical or lockstep?
00:18:17:01 - 00:18:29:21
Louka
What's your reflections in your work, you know, across the world about that, the agency that that kind of needs to be activated, I guess, with educators as well as with young people.
00:18:32:14 - 00:19:04:18
Lasse
If you think about the word agency, it means that, you know, you are self directing yourself and you are feeling belonging to the environment and the circumstances where you operate, right? Yeah. But then something that is missing from that word is how does your behavior and the way you operate and the way you act in that environment affect others.
00:19:05:16 - 00:19:37:06
Lasse
So I think like the key thing to adhere here is quote, agency, right? So when we are working as a as a as a social unit and we are working as a as a group of people, whatever we do always affect others. And sometimes they might be reading, you know, from the newspapers or from social media that somebody has been really having agency for the activities they have been doing in a neighborhood, but they haven't been really paying attention.
00:19:37:10 - 00:20:05:07
Lasse
How that will affect what this they might have be important. They cost somewhere in the wrong place or they happy that I'm throwing their trust out because that has helped them. But then somebody else needs to be thinking those things and, you know, they need character to get that kind of stuff. Yeah, but if you think about go agency, then we are seen as a responsible together to create something and work as a one kind of like united and proven people towards the same common goals.
00:20:05:21 - 00:20:39:08
Lasse
And I think that's very important. And I say I so even a younger education professional I was once visiting, which maybe 70 years ago in one finish school when we were discussing about teaching because it was a part of the new core curriculum of Finland that was introduced in 2016. Yeah. And then there was this a little bit older history teacher conduct the USB driver from his pocket and said to young man, Why would I borrow this USB stick to anyone else in my school?
00:20:39:09 - 00:21:01:11
Lasse
It has all my exams, all my course materials, everything I have been building in last 30 years. Why would I give this? This would give this to someone because it belongs to me. And it's kind of like really clearly underlines. Yes. That's like how in this kind of like if you are if this is the culture you are having.
00:21:01:14 - 00:21:39:03
Lasse
Yeah. It's very challenging to create a sense of belonging, working together and introducing even a teamwork. If everybody are so afraid of giving something out that they have been creating and hoping, then in return they might be actually receiving something that they would not know how to do. And I think that's the key. When we think about core agency, it's not only about doing whatever you want and and create kind of a like that's kind of like very individual around here.
00:21:39:09 - 00:22:10:02
Lasse
Yeah. Individualistic way of being and doing Yeah. Actually we have to be letting go of some of the power of some of our own systems in order to be able to have a healthy relationships and good working team spirit, the culture, school culture. Yeah. Whether we are so, so so it's it's not a one way street and we have to have like we have to have an active dialog with others.
00:22:10:08 - 00:22:18:21
Lasse
And for that reason I would always like to add call agency. And to that it's great.
00:22:19:04 - 00:22:43:07
Louka
I mean, I think it's a wonderful reflection. I think Lisa and I think about the Education 2030 project as well from the OECD and their Learner Compass, which is co agency really built into it and not surprisingly out of the work that we do is co design because, you know, similarly it's, you know, is, is a principal designing a plan and giving it to the team.
00:22:43:12 - 00:23:04:01
Louka
You know, you know, teachers designing a unit and then giving it to the students as opposed to all of us kind of using our collective wisdom, intelligence experience to build something that unique because it has all of our consciousness and our perspectives baked into it. We find it the most powerful way to enable transformation in schools, particularly around strategic design and cultural shifts.
00:23:04:12 - 00:23:12:09
Louka
This idea of co you know, there is no there is no real separation as much as we pretend that there might be, you know, we live in a system.
00:23:12:10 - 00:23:41:08
Lasse
And there are kind of a like, yeah, and there are kind of like good examples, like if people get to do Co-designing and we do the classroom design and then, you know, the students are coming back to a classroom and the architect has been thinking, and I will put the sink behind the door when it's opened up. So it's not, you know, in a way and then it doesn't feel like it's it's not, you know, something that you will see the first time you come in.
00:23:41:14 - 00:24:00:03
Lasse
Mm hmm. Well, what happens when the students come in and they sort of wash their hands? The seat is on the wrong side of the door, and it creates a roadblock. It's in the corner very neatly, ton. And then, you know, there is no way the students can easily go and wash their hands because there will be a sliding door, etc., and then don't wash their hands.
00:24:00:10 - 00:24:26:10
Lasse
Yeah, if you would papering the sink on the other side of the door, you open up the door, students come in and wash their hand and they've got their seat. Yeah, beautiful. And all are all washed their hands. And it's like a one very small, kind of like a design for from the user perspective. Yes. Which could have been solved in 5 minutes if there would have been co-designing for that for the room.
00:24:27:00 - 00:24:55:09
Lasse
So, so it is kind of like a very small things can change a lot. How Well the school operates or the learning learning environment operates. And and for that reason I think like the co-designing and call whatsoever is extremely important. So that we would be more open to have this discussed and kind of like creating ways that work for the end user or for the for the student in the best possible way.
00:24:55:22 - 00:25:22:09
Louka
Fantastic. Say that's such a it has a tangible example and I think that language there of like design features in a physical space I think it's really it makes it so practical for all of us. We can imagine the problem and the solution. And so I because I think you're so well placed and you're, you know, you really are mapping and and elevating the kind of leading innovations around the world in education.
00:25:23:01 - 00:26:11:07
Louka
If we're sitting down having this conversation as older men hopefully still fit and able as we are, whatever, you know, in, say, 20, 20, 36, you know, 13 year someone start school this year, they graduate in that year, for example. What do you think some of the design features are of education systems? What what can you imagine if we have this education transformed reality as one of the scenarios, maybe the preferred feature in our view, what are some of the features of education systems, like what's shifted, what right, what principles underlie You know, and I'm thinking back to your idea of co agency being one of the the features of that new system that's been
00:26:11:07 - 00:26:20:21
Louka
designed, the kind of minimum viable system, right? Although the most preferred system, the NPS, whatever, whatever the language might be, what, what would you say to that?
00:26:25:14 - 00:27:02:01
Lasse
My hope and frame is that the cradle involves would disappear. So when we would go deeper into personalized learning and teaching experiences, potentially we could see the different kind of ways to grow the students and the competencies in different fields and then the school could be more flexible as the world is more flexible. And the way how we work is becoming more and more flexible at the moment.
00:27:02:15 - 00:27:27:13
Lasse
So why wouldn't school, why couldn't school be flexible as well? So what that could mean is that like, for example, we have a lot of talking about inclusive learning at the moment and we think like how do we should have it as special learners, as a part of the normal school community is how we're just kind of alike to all of that.
00:27:28:04 - 00:28:01:12
Lasse
And there has been a very heated discussions about that in Finland. And sometimes I'm thinking like, what if their way of they're trying to do this completely? It's completely kind of like broken for the future about what if people would kind of like be able to kind of like think somehow they're creating the students or kind of like putting them in the right learning pockets in different ways, like why we have only one learning pocket, which is called grade two or grade three or four.
00:28:01:15 - 00:28:37:04
Lasse
Yeah, what if that could be divided on, on a different level? So, so that the learning could happen in a more collaborative environment and, and at the same time, you know, allowing the students to create their own social, social circles and find the friends from school community by Dalby trapped them, you know, to those grades. And then we think that this is the way how the learning should happen because it's just something that we have created, you know, a decade ago that we think like growing this year.
00:28:37:05 - 00:29:05:15
Lasse
These are the things I should be learning. And I think some of the learners, especially those are challenging, but also those might be very challenging for the ones who have more tendencies to learn math or, you know, whatever. So then they are, you know, once again, like trapped with the things that they don't find it interesting that in in that particular subject because they they could be already more informal about and I think that is one of the key challenges for what we should be thinking, how to solve it.
00:29:05:24 - 00:29:25:02
Lasse
Somebody could maybe do the primary school in six years, seven years, but it would take 12. And if the end result would be that a lot of them find, you know, opportunities for meaningful life and contribution and knowledge societies, I think that would be beautiful.
00:29:27:15 - 00:29:58:19
Louka
That's fantastic. I can really see that the vision, I mean, and I think if we go far enough out this idea that a humanized education would mean every human is seen as irreducibly unique and therefore kind of beyond categorization as interesting. Our small versus big data comment means that small data and qualitative data would be so elevated to say this is the the qualities of this human being and they are ready for this level of instruction.
00:29:58:19 - 00:30:22:11
Louka
I think I will, if we design it properly, kind of enable us to to do that. Well. But yeah, even the whole idea, will we even have school in 2050? You know, that's a really provocative question. Or we have these different types of hybrid learning environments or global giants, or will there be a return back to that which is most human?
00:30:22:11 - 00:30:46:14
Louka
I mean, if you think pre-industrial era, you know, we used to learn, we used to learn in multigenerational ways, intergenerationally, there would always be the elders with the young ones and then the kind of adolescence and everyone would kind of be in this learning situation in a village setting. And we've kind of now what we've done is say, okay, let's take all the young ones, let's put them all together and try to stop them from killing each other.
00:30:46:21 - 00:30:59:22
Louka
In some ways, you know, let's get them all kind of learning with each other as opposed to like the mentoring, the growth. And I feel like that's a really powerful insight to that. Well, I look forward to Yeah.
00:31:00:03 - 00:31:24:05
Lasse
And and if we think about like the learning environment are designing at the moment, so, so at least what we are seeing is that like that's starting to happen in some way. So we might be seeing, for example, in the guidance we saw creating in the same building senior housing. Yeah. So then you are kind of like having more that kind of like inter-generational and collaboration.
00:31:24:09 - 00:31:48:10
Lasse
It's easier to organize. All we are seeing like some community spaces are not the same buildings with the schools, so it provides like more possibilities to do something with the families and have different. That engagement is a part of that. And like I said, that's a natural element of that, of the learning and learning community as well. And I think like all of those are needed, all, all of these elements are needed.
00:31:48:10 - 00:32:13:13
Lasse
And I'm kind of like hoping that that we wouldn't see the school or this learning places as a separate unit where it's kind of like send our gates and they are out of harm's way for some amount of hours and then they are coming back, back to home, but hopefully see them more as a part of their as a part of our community so that they are not isolated.
00:32:14:10 - 00:32:34:08
Lasse
But those buildings and those facilities could be also used in many, many different ways. And I think like that could also be very important from the economic point of view. Like we build, schools might be then empty for 2 to 3 months a year when when those facilities are not usable by anything. Yeah. And I find that that's a huge waste.
00:32:34:09 - 00:32:52:07
Lasse
So so you should be able to kind of like find ways to do to kind of like collaborate more with the learning organizations and the campuses and all of that so that those could be part of our everyday lives in different ways.
00:32:52:13 - 00:33:20:01
Louka
I'd love to listen, and both you and I quite connected to kind of the frame of learning ecosystems, you know, And I really think one thing that is a guaranteed is a shift away from the school as a single institution where you go from 830 to 330 towards the site of a full learning ecosystem that's informal, non-formal, like life wide, life deep, lifelong, you know, different communities coming in like a kind of a co-working space hub, you know, really redesigning that.
00:33:20:01 - 00:33:40:10
Louka
And these are learning precincts that we are seeing kind of being built out across the world, not just in the start up space, but in the educational space and will be interested. You've got a kindergarten and then you end up in the old folks home. You know, that's across the road, you know, and you come and that kind of becomes much more of a village cyclical orientation, I think, to the arc of our lives and our contribution.
00:33:41:19 - 00:34:02:20
Louka
And so I hope may in 2036 or whatever the framing was, I used, you know, we can sit down and have a conversation, see how close we were, and if the dream has come to pass. In some ways it's been wonderful to chat with you. As always. I my final question is, what is your take home message? What would you like to resonate in the minds of our wonderful listeners?
00:34:02:20 - 00:34:11:07
Louka
Thank you for listening. You know, from your standpoint, when you look across the horizon of of education futures, of transformation.
00:34:13:21 - 00:34:49:08
Lasse
I think I will steal that MVP concept from Deepak. Remember to have you minimum viable course it's beautiful And yeah, and to use that moment to think about something that you like or something that Yeah that that has been wandering you or says to give you nothing relax your mind for a moment and then I will do more for I don't do something more challenge thing in the next, next moment.
00:34:49:08 - 00:34:54:00
Lasse
So maybe that's there. That's kind of what the message I hope people would remember.
00:34:55:02 - 00:35:19:04
Louka
Minimum five APPLAUSE Thank you very much. Let's say I'm going to take that into my day tomorrow. Thank you for sharing the work that you're doing and your perspective, you know, from her, but also beyond. Congratulations on becoming a father. That's not you know, not but it's fabulous journeys. And now it's all personal for you. But yeah, it's been wonderful to have you as part of this Education Transform series.
00:35:21:03 - 00:35:24:07
Lasse
Yes, I know you understand why this point is so important to me.
00:35:27:05 - 00:35:28:18
Louka
Absolutely. My goal.
00:35:29:17 - 00:35:33:01
Lasse
For. All right. Thanks about the last one.
00:35:33:09 - 00:35:52:22
Louka
Fantastic. And I say really fantastic, I love the work that you're doing so good. You know, and I think the way you look at education transform. And at that point, the really poignant piece that I'm taking away is how do we let how do you get people to let go, you know, and do less? Like, how do we support schools and systems?
00:35:52:22 - 00:36:12:02
Louka
You and I, an organization, our work for decades to come to really be bold in letting go stuff because it feels like everyone does want to touch the sacred cow, you know, like, and let go of it, you know, kill it, kill the faculty structure or the grade levels. People lose their minds, you know? But yeah, there's boldness ahead.
00:36:12:02 - 00:36:12:11
Louka
I think.
00:36:15:03 - 00:36:16:02
Lasse
You did. All right.
00:36:16:20 - 00:36:17:19
Louka
I'll leave it to myself.
00:36:17:19 - 00:36:18:16
Lasse
We have some work to do.
00:36:18:21 - 00:36:24:03
Louka
We always, always want to do that. So I'll see you later this year. Well, it's always a pleasure.
00:36:24:15 - 00:36:25:13
Lasse
But I.
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